Question. Is it not held, according to the declaration of principles of the order, by the members that one who usurped powers of that character forfeited all claim to their support, and that resistance, even to his expulsion from power, is an inherent right which belongs to them and not revolution?

Answer. I think, sir; your idea is correct; that is the case.

Question. You also identified pamphlet in blue cover marked W?

Answer. I identity that. I may say here that there have been copies made of the original, so that it is difficult for me to identify them. That has the general principles.

Question. I direct your attention to pages 4 and 5 and ask you whether they are the oath required to be admitted to the fourth and fifth? Are they obligations of persons required to be admitted to any of the degrees; and if so, to what degree?

Answer. They are of the first.

Question. What do you understand to be the meaning of that part of the obligation taken by those admitted to the degree, the obligation of which is found on page 5 of book marked W, which reads as follows:

I do further promise that I will at all times, if needs be, take up arms in the cause of the oppressed, in my own country first of all, against any monarch, prince, potentate, power, or government usurped, which may be found in arms and waging war against a people or peoples who are endeavoring to establish, or have inaugurated, a government for themselves, of their own choice, in accordance with and founded upon the eternal principles of truth! This I do promise without reservation of evasion of mind, and without regarding the position or designation of the invading power, whether it shall arise from within or come from without.

Answer. My view of that was that we were taking arms in defense of the Government as transmitted to us from our further-that we would not allow it to be subverted and the institutions overturned; in other words, we were in favor of a republican from of government, or we would assist others who were struggling for a similar form of government, but not the Confederate States.

Question. I beg to draw your attention closely to the wording of that oath, and to say if it does not impose upon the member taking it at least to withhold all support from the Government to suppress the present rebellion, if not directly to aid and assist it be refusing to perform all the duties required of and enjoined upon the loyal citizens of the Government.

Answer. I did not view it so, sir. I think that is not the construction of it. I will explain that it was not intended to operate against the Government of the United States; that was not the construction put upon it by my friends with whom I associated; I did not view it so.

Question. Will you please look at this paper marked H, headed "A list of members of a conservative club at -?"

Answer. I recognize that, sir.

Question. Is this the form of a roll of members of a council?

Answer. It is local list; you cannot term it as something issued by the organization as an order. It is not a general roll of the order at all. I believe it has been used; it is got up for that purpose.

Question. You see by the headings here, the headings are "Missouri Republican," "Saint Louis Union," " Anzeiger," "Miscellaneous Periodicals," " Books," " Speeches," "Reports. " Will you please state to me, from the knowledge you have, what these headings mean - what does "Missouri Republican" indicate in the mind of the members of the order?

Answer. It means that the probably has a single gun; "Saint Louis Union" means that he has a double-barreled gun; "Anzeiger," number of revolvers; "Miscellaneous,"